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Attack on ISKCON
<< 11 Will all the ISKCON gurus fall down? >>
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| So first of all, the first argument is that many gurus have fallen. Well, many have not fallen (laughter). More have not fallen than have fallen. Those of us who are initiating, at least I can say for myself, we are not pure devotees of the Lord. I am not. I don't see Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana. I don't cry tears of ecstasy when I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I'm not and will never be on the level of Śrīla Prabhupāda.
| | But it does not mean that I'm gonna fall down. That would defeat the whole philosophy that you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the stage of pure devotion by following the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But I can repeat what my spiritual master has said, I can set a good example for my disciples, and by following my example and hearing what Prabhupāda has said from me, you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
| | There's different types of pure devotees (chuckles). A disciple can see his spiritual master as a pure devotee in the sense that his spiritual master has fully dedicated his body, mind and words to the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Śrīla Prabhupāda.
| | vaco vegam manasah krodha-vegam
ihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam
| | Basically, one who can control his senses, and one who is fully immersed in the missionary activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is qualified to make disciples all over the world. It doesn't say that one has to be experienced in the eight ecstatic symptoms of love of God. One has to be of a certain stature in Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be an initiating guru, that I agree. But ṛtvik people say that unless one is, you know, completely self-realized devotee of the Lord who can see Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana, that he shouldn't initiate. But that is not our philosophy. Prabhupāda said, even one who is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he can accept disciples. And the fact that there're gurus who have fallen down does not mean that the process is wrong, because even during Lord Caitanya's time some gurus were falling down. The sannyāsīs are the natural spiritual masters of the society, and Chota Haridās, Junior Haridās, fell down. A personal associate of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇadāsa Brahmacārī, he was the Lord's assistant when He went to South India, he fell down!And Narahari Sarkara wrote a book, Kṛṣṇa Bhajanāmṛta, which explains what to do if your guru falls down. Which means that you pray like anything that he comes back and becomes properly situated, and can continue to guide you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You wait for him to come back. If he doesn't come back, that's another lecture. But the point is that there were gurus who were falling down. But not every guru! (chuckles) Some. So in ISKCON some have fallen.
| | Śrī Prahlāda dāsa: "In Gauḍīya Maṭh, too."
Indradyumna Swami: In Gauḍīya Maṭh so many gurus have fallen. In Rāmānujācārya's sampradāya so many gurus have fallen. So one shouldn't think, "Oh, my guru will also fall." That's offensive. If you lose your faith in guru, then you lose your faith in Kṛṣṇa. So they are saying like that, that we can only accept Prabhupāda as the guru. But that's never been in our Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava tradition, or any sampradāya. Prabhupāda many times said that the spiritual master can accept disciples while he is living, but after he passes away, he can't accept any more disciples.
| | How is it possible? How can he train them, enthuse them, inspire them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? We need the living representative Prabhupāda said, "He, who is disciple now, if he is qualified, he will be spiritual master in the future." And Prabhupāda said on many occasions that he was training his disciples that in the future they would also be spiritual masters. You think that all of the disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvatī who began initiating, were fully self-realized souls? Every guru, you know, who accepts disciples since the times of Kṛṣṇa, was a fully realized soul? Sometimes yes, other times they were simply passing on the perfect message.
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